Author Topic: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....  (Read 23965 times)

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spacecase0

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2012, 12:54:34 AM »
for a boat ground I usually use a 3 inch wide copper strip about 35 foot long in the bilge water closest to the ocean possible, and connect off the rest of the metal rigging to ground as well.
I am worried about ground loops with the power system if connecting off to the propeller as they tend to dissolve the metal fast, but if it was an independent solar charged power to the radio then I would go for it.

KC9TNH

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2012, 07:53:54 PM »
So here is the Test Question, for this exercise....  What would you do to make the Antenna system on this vessel as good as possible, across the LF/MF/HF Spectrum?
Come back after a couple of days and find a really neat question. Not familiar with maritimes/marine systems as much as I should be but starting to get interested in them; some of the vessels I've relayed for when asked about their antenna system and why their signal is so good the answer is "ground, ground, ground" similar to what illuminates one mobile over another in a vehicle. Don't usually have time for chit-chat but I'm curious about this.

Short response is I don't know; read something recently that, short of trailing a wire in the ocean, copper foil around the bilge area strikes a memory chord as being good, what spacecase0 suggested above, as well as the mention of not tying into the electrical ground of other mechanicals on the vessel. This is a neat topic.

so now for some questions... can anyone think of any problems with painting one of the insulators?  is typical house paint these days conductive?  Just trying to do anything I can to make things blend in.
Under normal circumstances, paint-match to your heart's content if necessary "to ensure the domestic tranquility."

Second question which is unrelated to this installation ..... If I was to hang a balun for a dipole (or some kind of vertical, or ...) from a tower should it be offset from the tower itself?
The balun isn't a problem; you want the wire that's coming into it clear. Put on BTPost's "RF glasses" (I like that); what's the tower look like?
:)

BTPost

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2012, 07:00:13 PM »
Come back after a couple of days and find a really neat question. Not familiar with maritimes/marine systems as much as I should be but starting to get interested in them; some of the vessels I've relayed for when asked about their antenna system and why their signal is so good the answer is "ground, ground, ground" similar to what illuminates one mobile over another in a vehicle. Don't usually have time for chit-chat but I'm curious about this.

The balun isn't a problem; you want the wire that's coming into it clear. Put on BTPost's "RF glasses" (I like that); what's the tower look like?
:)

On vessels "It is the RF Ground" that makes it work.. For non-metallic hulls, especially NEW Construction, the best is to put copper screening on the inside of the hull, before the last Gell-coat is layed down on the inside of the hull. OR if the sailing vessel has a Lead or metal filled Keel, the tying into the Keel Bolts, makes a very good RF GROUND. You are looking for Surface Area, to build the best capacitive coupling to the Salt Water, and getting that side of the capacitor as close to the water as possible, without actually making contact, which invites electrolysis. 
The tower is always in the Near Field of any antenna that it is supporting, so assuming that the tower itself IS GROUNDED, then it must be accounted for in the antenna design. Usually it becomes just a minor issue at HF, due to polarization being vertical, and the HF antenna being horizontal. Also the tower is usually offset offset, of the end, OR directly in the center of of the HF Antenna. This mitigates any ground coupling effects of the tower.
Bruce in alaska AL7AQ

KC9TNH

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2012, 08:18:05 PM »
On vessels "It is the RF Ground" that makes it work.. (and rest of post)
Thanks very much for taking the time, most interesting. I was running my brain down the path of "hey, we're talking about half the antenna here" as well as the reasons I wouldn't maintain an electrical safety ground and assume that was adequate as an RF ground, they being 2 different things. Thanks for the insights to the construction methods.

And I believe your assessment of "the industry."  After the post last night I got curious and searched over some of this stuff and found website after website describing tying everything into whatever the engine was doing. Lots more words than that, but essentially what their approach was. Not being a sailor I hadn't thought of using the material in the keel but that's cool too.


73
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 02:52:53 PM by KC9TNH »

Sky Pilot

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2012, 02:11:19 PM »
I'm a great fan of the AH-4 tuner.
It will tune a light bulb or a Ford Explorer as an antenna.
(This is not saying a light bulb or an Explorer will make a wonderful antenna, only that it'll tune and transmit.  It's a stunt, like tuning up a stepladder or a folding aluminum chair, just to show it can be done!)
I too live in a hated HOA, She Who Must Be Obeyed wanted a house built there and I wasn't a ham yet.
I have a magnet wire, horizontal delta loop antenna.
Love loops.
Loops can be round, square, triangular, pentangular, hex-, hept-, or octangular, and the sides between the angles do not have to run in a straight line.
Mine is eight feet off the ground (yes, I know, a worm warmer or a cloud burner, but it works!) -- and as I am using a mostly dead snag at one of the angles, I run it up the tree and down the tree before going on around the delta, on the theory that it'll give me a vertical influence on an otherwise horizontal antenna.
Whether it helps or hurts I don't really know ... but it's the best I have on my little postage stamp lot.
Additional free advice available upon request

scubadivingjoe

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2012, 02:39:34 PM »
It Looks like that AH-4 tuner is only for Icom radios. 

AD

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2015, 10:51:00 AM »
Old thread but I see I left out my set up

I use 2 Par End Fedz wires(20&40) hidden in a pine tree in my front yard. The wire are so thin they are basicly invisible.

They are mono band and don't need a tuner.

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamwire/4456.html

Reviews here
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3632
The only dumb question is the one that did not get asked!!

dangerdan

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2015, 07:46:16 PM »
In you photo , I noticed a fence at the back of your property .
Where does the HOA end ,and who owns the field on the other side of the fence .
If outside of HOA ..looks like a farm field...
Vertical if land owner permits


DD

Captain Crunch

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2015, 02:17:32 PM »
If your HOA is giving trouble then you should look at the CHA F-LOOP (magnetic loop):
http://chameleonantenna.com/PORTABLE%20ANTENNA/CHA%20F-LOOP/Chameleon%20F-LOOP.html




-CC

spacecase0

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Re: HF Antenna Suggestions...HOA....
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2015, 06:36:34 PM »
If your HOA is giving trouble then you should look at the CHA F-LOOP (magnetic loop):
http://chameleonantenna.com/PORTABLE%20ANTENNA/CHA%20F-LOOP/Chameleon%20F-LOOP.html




-CC

I wonder how close that is to the alex loop antenna ?
http://alexloop.com/