Author Topic: Close comms up to 100- ish miles  (Read 4506 times)

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Scaleburner

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Close comms up to 100- ish miles
« on: November 27, 2015, 08:09:34 AM »
Hey guys new to ham radio and this forum.  What equipment do you recommend for
A scenario where I need to reach someone possibly a hundred miles away, normal terrain, without the use
Of repeaters? In a shtf scenario we can't count on repeaters necessarily like with emp
Or some other electronic failure scenario.  I know it can depend a lot on antenna, etc. but what kind of
Power would you have to push? SSB going to be the best way? I'm trying not to break the bank either but
Just have no idea where to start.  Thanks in advance

Quiet1

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Re: Close comms up to 100- ish miles
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2015, 08:44:12 AM »
Scaleburner, for reliable comms CB is more of a 10 mile solution.  Yes, there are exceptions to this under exceptional circumstances, but in reality 10 miles is a good working number.  "The 100 Mile Solution" is a common question and probably deserves a thread of its own, but to give you a short answer, it's near-vertical incidence skywave (NVIS) on 80 and 40 meters.  You can read more about it here at Wikipedia.  The gear you'll need to do it is (1) a long, low wire antenna, (2) a transceiver that can put out at least 20 watts, and (3) a General ham license to legally use it.  And of course a way to power that radio.  Call it $500 and some DIY on each end, more if you're buying new gear.

Dragging this thread back on topic, CB's not such a bad band around here.  There's so little use that an open channel is pretty easy to find.  I keep a Cobra 148GTL around for kicks, and have a couple of Midland 75-785 handhelds to loan to Truly Unprepared friends following hurricanes.  It's easier than biking over to check on them each evening, which was what I was doing a lot of after Katrina.  Under $40, the 75-875 is a complete package and is so simple to operate that in actual testing even a social worker can do it.

For an antenna I've got a Solarcon A99 on a 21' fence top rail.  In testing it easily hits those handhelds 3 miles away.  It does double duty on 17, 15, 12, 10, and part of 6 meters; that's a nice bonus.
North of the salt, south of I-10.

AD

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Re: Close comms up to 100- ish miles
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2015, 09:22:29 AM »
Scale

I split your post off and created a new topic so it is not hidden under the CB topic. 

As Quiet said NVIS would work if both you and your other party had this set up.

We have a few threads here on NVIS, do a quick search for "NVIS"
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 09:31:19 AM by AD »
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Tevin

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Re: Close comms up to 100- ish miles
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2015, 08:55:49 PM »
Welcome to the forums. I agree the "100 mile" question is very common and one of the hardest to answer. Ham radio is great for very short range and very long range. The in-between is quite tricky.

A ham radio scenario, which is your only real option, requires both ends to have an FCC licensed operator.

As mentioned, NVIS is a good choice with the caveat that 100 miles may be too close even for NVIS. With prime conditions and the right equipment, you might pull it off with 2 meter simplex.

Another method is ground wave. There's not much physics involved. You just need a transmitter beefy enough to chuck a signal 100 miles without skipping off the ionosphere. You're looking at 100 watt output minimum and a good antenna, on both ends, and a way to power the equipment.

The six meter band might be good at this task too.

No solution will work 100% of the time. It's not like a cellphone where you just dial up and connect straight through.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 08:58:16 PM by Tevin »

DragoSapien

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Re: Close comms up to 100- ish miles
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2015, 10:04:35 PM »
For sure UHF/VHF wont work that far with out a repeater. At Least not where im at. I have to use 80m in order to reach out up to 300mi. Thats on a good day. 6m I think will work as well, just not many are using it around me.

spacecase0

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Re: Close comms up to 100- ish miles
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2015, 11:12:23 PM »
CB gets about 2 miles around here with good external antennas
with no repeater on 2M/440 I get to the first hill 3 miles away and it is done, if I use SSB and a good antenna I get over 100 miles the other direction, but that is only about one out of 40 days or so (and I have quite good elevation but lots of trees where I am at)
6M FM gets me a good 10 miles one way and 50 or more miles the other way,
my near vertical radiation antenna on 40M gets me 200 miles away or further most days, I also don't seem to miss the close stations either.

if I were mobile where I live, I would go for 6M,
if I were stationary I would go for 40M (at least in the daytime)
if I were in a dense city looking for coverage and buying new hardware I would look at high power 220MHZ mobile radios, but sure would not be expecting 100 miles from it, would set up a relay from a 40M station somewhere in or near that city

Scaleburner

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Re: Close comms up to 100- ish miles
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2015, 07:54:18 AM »
Thanks guys this is really helping me out.  As far as radio equipment goes I've been
Trying to find a good used radio which can operate at 40 - 80 meters when needed
But all of them are 100 watts or over.  As quiet1 said, I only need something capable of say 20 watts
But I haven't seen anything out there with that low power output.  I've seen some used kenwood ts-930 online
For about $350-$400 range but I'm not sure if it's overkill for what I need or a good place to start.  I definitely want to keep
The cost of the radio down but need it reliable.  I can see from some research that the antenna will cost a good chunk
Of money due to its length needed alone so just trying to figure this all out.

AD

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Re: Close comms up to 100- ish miles
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2015, 08:02:19 AM »
Any of the modern radios can dial back power to ~5 watts.  Antennas for NVIS can be made for a few dollars and a little time.  Any wire can radiate speaker wire, barbed wire, rain gutters.   

You just need a resonant length set at the correct height above the ground amd someone on the other end with a similar set up. 
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Lamewolf

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Re: Close comms up to 100- ish miles
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2015, 09:40:14 AM »
Welcome to the forums. I agree the "100 mile" question is very common and one of the hardest to answer. Ham radio is great for very short range and very long range. The in-between is quite tricky. <snip>

Not tricky at all, I communicate every day on 80 meters consistently as close in as 10 miles and as far out as 300 miles.

A ham radio scenario, which is your only real option, requires both ends to have an FCC licensed operator. <snip>

Yep, can't forget that !

As mentioned, NVIS is a good choice with the caveat that 100 miles may be too close even for NVIS. With prime conditions and the right equipment, you might pull it off with 2 meter simplex. <snip>

Not too short, it works great at those ranges consistently if you simply chose the right band !