Author Topic: Advice needed please  (Read 6944 times)

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vektor40

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Advice needed please
« on: March 21, 2015, 04:45:48 PM »
To all the tech brains out there

Does anyone have any experience with the Chameleon antennas, specifically the ZEPP and the ENNCOM?  I have read mixed reports.  I need an antenna that is relatively inexpensive.  I would like to work 20 and 80 meters.  I need something that is easy to 'hang' and that is unobtrusive.  If I can use it when going on a trip viz. camping, this would be a plus.

I have a 450D and plan to also buy a 857D at some point in the future.  I have two left hands when it comes to building things.  I do not need anything 'flash'.  I just need something reliable, easy to use and quick to deploy in a yard with no trees.

Any information will be appreciated.

Thank you in anticipation.

AD

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Re: Advice needed please
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2015, 05:14:11 PM »
I think Unseen has one but I dont know which model.

Search for these to find the best price but make sure you find the FIBERGLASS one not these alum versions

[http://www.militaryfieldgear.com/csomifi4ftpo.html

You can get these antennas and not need a tuner.  They are mono band but work well. I use a 20 and a 40 and have talked around the world on them.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamwire/4456.html

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/3632
« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 05:21:49 PM by AD »
The only dumb question is the one that did not get asked!!

Tevin

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Re: Advice needed please
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2015, 10:14:40 PM »
I've said this before and other forum members may be tired of me yapping about it but....

I don't like the "portable" antennas. They give up too much performance as a tradeoff for portability. The Chameleon EMCOMM II costs $115 and all you get is sixty feet of wire and a balun (The ZEPP is barely more than that). I could make either one for less than $50. And if you read the fine print, you'll notice that you still need an antenna tuner.

In my book, any commercially made antenna that tells you up-front that it needs a tuner has too many givebacks. It requires zero skill to throw something together, plug it into an antenna tuner to "fix" all the shortcomings, and call it a success. 

Plenty of people on this forum and elsewhere will disagree with me. They use these antennas and are happy with them, or at least think they're happy. That's fine, but I'm just not seeing much bang for the buck.


spacecase0

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Re: Advice needed please
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2015, 10:59:26 PM »
I am not sure that anyone will think an antenna tuner is a great idea,
I use mine only for fixing tiny errors,
or for crazy things that should not work for in the first place (like tuning up the 2M antenna feed line shield to see what it does )

Tempstar

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Re: Advice needed please
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2015, 05:08:40 AM »
I have the Hybrid, V1L, and MIL whip. They do OK but nothing approaching a dipole. My neighbor has the EMCOMM up as a sloper, and we added a new wire, 75' I think, to get him on 80. Again, it works but not as well as a dipole.
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vektor40

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Re: Advice needed please
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2015, 07:22:51 PM »
AD, Tempstar, Tevin and Spacecase

Thank you for the feedback.

I like your suggestion AD. The antenna seems like a simple solid option.  I am going to probably get the 80 meter version. 

I appreciate the quick response everyone.

Have a blessed week.

AD

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Re: Advice needed please
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2015, 07:37:10 PM »
Even though they are a mono band antenna and you have some losses with the matching box, they work very well. 

Here is the 20 M par end fedz in action.  I have talked around the world on 100 watts

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lCuGf21tGSc
The only dumb question is the one that did not get asked!!

mousewizard

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Re: Advice needed please
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2015, 10:34:26 AM »
I'm with Tevin on this one. A simple dipole cut to the calling frequency is the best solution. You don't need a tuner with a properly constructed one. Remember that a tuner only makes the antenna look good to the transmitter.  The tuner may till see high SWR, but protects the radio. High swr means most of your signal is not getting out. OTOH a balun at the antenna feed point is essential.

If you run an 80 meter dipole less than 20 meters off the ground most of your signal will go straight up and back down.  Good for in-state work but not for DX. Keep that in mind.
There are always times when a house and truck loaded with antennas is considered an asset by the neighbors.

Tevin

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Re: Advice needed please
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2015, 05:42:35 PM »
I'm with Tevin on this one. A simple dipole cut to the calling frequency is the best solution. You don't need a tuner with a properly constructed one. Remember that a tuner only makes the antenna look good to the transmitter.  The tuner may till see high SWR, but protects the radio. High swr means most of your signal is not getting out. OTOH a balun at the antenna feed point is essential.

For HF I use home-brew dipoles exclusively (no tuner) with excellent results.

One of the big selling points with the commercially made "porta-tennas" is that most of them claim to work on many bands. The hangup with that, in addition to not working very well, is that very few hams need/want/will use all the bands anyway. So what's the point?

It's far more productive to make a simple dipole that will work for real (without a tuner) for the one or two bands you use the most. Unfortunately, the status of amateur radio is such that there is an entire generation of Extras who haven't the vaguest clue how to make a dipole (something I was expected to do from memory as a Novice 35 years ago...and can still do today).

Regarding antenna tuners, they do have their place, but they seem to have morphed into a universal cop-out solution for any antenna problem and de facto compensation for poor engineering and/or lack of skill. Again, this is what happens when too many people "earn" the the highest class ham radio ticket offered and the only dipole they've ever seen was a picture in a book.

In another topic I made this comment about antenna tuners, and it still applies: 

"Antenna tuners...are not part of a carefully designed system. They are used to make a radio work with what would otherwise be an unacceptable load. With a few rare exceptions, adding an antenna tuner is, in essence, the same as admitting your antenna sucks...If you want an antenna that fits in a backpack and on its own will do no better than a 1.8 SWR, I'll throw something together and sell it to you for a lot less than what those glorified rubber ducks cost. "

I can't top that. Everyone has to use their own judgement, and I understand I'm in the minority here. My experience says that the guy whose answer to every antenna issue is to slap tuner on it will always have an undeperforming station.



« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 06:20:02 PM by Tevin »

vektor40

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Re: Advice needed please
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2015, 09:46:05 PM »
I appreciate all the feedback.

I agree with the fact that an individual has to have competence in life to not have to  rely on 'quick fixes' viz. purchasing overpriced antennas that are sub-standard in performance.

I am trying to learn as much as I can about amateur radio and it does take time.  I am not a tech guy so it takes me a whole lot longer than most of you.  Sometimes I wish that I had the tech comprehension that so many of you demonstrate.  That said, I have to deal with reality and I eat the elephant in small bites.

I have set a goal to learn something new each day and I am grateful to forums such as Prepared Ham.  The knowledge base is phenomenal.

I have some information  to share with everyone but I will first have to ask AD for a blessing.

Thank you once again for the help. 

AD

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Re: Advice needed please
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2015, 11:51:10 PM »
Go for it
The only dumb question is the one that did not get asked!!