Author Topic: HF pack setup  (Read 16748 times)

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spacecase0

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2015, 10:54:54 AM »
good advice Tempstar,
I was thinking about the 18650 as well,
all of mine have a chip in them that limits max current out to 5A,
the ft857/897 takes 22A at most, so I would think 4 or 5 cells in parallel would do it,
so the set would have about a 10AH rating, and that would be fantastic
at 1.75 ounces each I get about 1.75 pounds for the pack
I would get 4 or 5 of these and wire them in parallel
http://www.dx.com/p/14-8v-4-x-18650-battery-holder-case-box-with-leads-103855
and 16 of these 18650s, (it is a 2 pack, so have to remember to order 8)
http://www.dx.com/p/uniquefire-18650-3-7v-2500mah-lithium-batteries-2-battery-pack-29030
so that puts the total at about $80 for a 2 pound battery
not bad at all, now I have to figure out how to get $80 of internet money
edit: forgot about the quantity discount they have, would be less than $80

« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 10:58:03 AM by spacecase0 »

GreekMan

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2015, 04:41:31 PM »
NO NO NO!
these are low quality items and I want to hear that you will be charging the batteries individually and not in the pack.
Else..KABOOM!!!!!!!!

get this (can be found in ebay too)
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1425/10002230/1161100-4s1p-14-8v-18650-holder-with-battery-build-in-pcm
these have a built in protection circuit

BTW voltage is 14.8 NOMINAL...real voltage of 4 lithium batteries in series is 4.2x4=16.8..Check your radio specs!

My HT will take 13.8V-in max, so i am preparing a 4series battery case with a DC-DC converter to regulate voltage at this.
Have a look at my baofeng battery eliminator mod

Regarding batteries...
best bang for the buck ere either these three models
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10002357/1170800-authentic-samsung-icr18650-26f-18650-3-7v-2600mah
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10001901/1136603-authentic-sanyo-ur18650fm-18650-2600mah-3-7v (most powerful of the ICRs)
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10001980/1141105-panasonic-ncr18650a-rechargeable-3100mah-37v-18650
(drain of these three is 2 times their capacity rating)

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10001980/1455000-panasonic-ncr18650pf-3-6v-2900mah-rechargeable-li
(Hybrid high drain batteries - 10A drain)

the ones you linked won't even take a puff ....

For 22A draw you got to go to the real high drain batteries
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10002357/1686801-authentic-samsung-inr18650-25r-3-6v-2500mah
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10002357/1628904-samsung-inr18650-29e-3-65v-2850mah-rechargeable
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004182/2016200-authentic-lg-18650he4-3-7v-2500mah-rechargeable
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004182/1659701-lg-icr18650he2-3-6v-2500mah-rechargeable-li-ion

spacecase0

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2015, 05:51:23 PM »
GreekMan, I like your 18650 links way better than mine,
but I use the batteries I linked to all the time,
they can take high drain just fine
and at least the ones I have include the protection circuit inside them, but you never know when they change what you actually get when ordering...
if you have a protection circuit in the holder and one in the battery, I have seen it just fail to work (especially on charge)
so make sure you don't have 2 sets of protection circuits,

was planning on recharging them in series with my solar charge controller,
so they would never hit that high voltage that would hurt my radio,
all my "12V" radios including my HT can take 15V-16V, but would only charge the set to 14.2V where my solar charge controller cuts out
if a set gets to far off voltage from one cell to the other, the protection circuit will just take that set off line, so I would hope for no fire...
just connect all 4 cells in parallel to equalize them, and if I do it every so often I should be fine

if I wanted real high discharge batteries, I would 4 of get these
http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/b-20Ah-32V-64W-5C-b-br-Aluminum-Encased-Battery-br-ISO9001-CE-UN383-MSDS-certified-br-Lithium-LiFePO4-LFP-Custom-Built-BatterybrUSA-Stockh34000-Cycles-Continuous-Charger-Cycles-br-Click-Image-Gallery-to-see-cycle-graphh3_p_113.html

I already have two 60AH ones that are similar, (LiFeYPO4)
but would need a boost switcher supply to make that low voltage work,
just don't have one that will do 10A and do it RF quiet
but can run my HTs off of the set perfect

by the way, I tried my setup with 4 pounds removed (while testing my 3.5F cap.)
and it was way easier to carry,
so I am pretty close to the weight I need, the lithium batteries would do it.

while testing, I found out that the 3.5F cap., the 20W solar, and no batteries will run the FT-817 at full power out (even on FM)
but will not run it with the power amp even in SSB mode...
same applies to the 7.5AH AGM battery I have, the power amp faults from low voltage.
so until I get lithiums or NiCad, I will be stuck with the heavy battery

GreekMan

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2015, 01:19:52 AM »
you see, the problem is that there is NO 18650 battery case/craddle that will handle the protected batteries that run longer in length.
So you are stuck with unprotected batteries, or no carrier at all.

Then down goes the plan for in series charging etc etc...

Another issue is that you will have to rewire the carrier, cos these ones have BIG parasitic resistance. I use a similar 1 cell carrier for LED testing, and I wired it with thicker wires and bypassed internal connections, cos I noticed considerable performance loss even at 3A.

PS...the batteries you posted are not protected, I think you can tell this...

spacecase0

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2015, 10:36:59 AM »
I have 18650 battery holders that fit the protected cells, got them form digi key
but you are very correct, the wires are kind of small
but I have made my own holders a few times before, not that hard

the 20AH batteries I linked to are not protected,
they are also lithium iron and not lithium ion, so they don't light on fire so easy,
they tell you where to limit the charge voltage to not have issues with series charging,
and you can get voltage limiter boards for the cells that make sure they are all equal when charging
they use this kind of battery in electric cars and they have worked out the details of charging in series quite well
but I suggest to read the documentation well
the lithium iron also have a lower voltage, so they work better with the standard 12V hardware

GreekMan

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2015, 01:16:57 PM »
I was speaking of the Ultrafires from DX actually.
Any link on the digikey holders?

I have some ideas for a better construction...
Have you got a hobby charger?

1. there is a LiFePO4 battery pack for the ft-817...
yuo can make something smiliar

2. you can get an unprotected 18650 batteries case and add balancing charging leads

spacecase0

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2015, 03:50:25 PM »
I looked for the 18650 holders I got before I posted,
and could not find a bookmarked link,
and can't find the conformation email or any other part number
it is a single cell holder...

ok, went and searched for the number on the bottom of the holder,
and found a link
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/BH-18650-W/BH-18650-W-ND/3029217
make sure to check the length on the specifications, and on your cells before you bother to order one,
but they sure fit all of my protected cells

no hobby charger here,
I use the LM2596 regulator boards to charge almost everything
would be temped to use 4 small solar panels and 4 LM2596 regulators to just charge each set of 4 or 5 in parallel separately
independent charging assures a balanced system, that is unless some sort of shade is involved...

that all reminds me,
I do have a set of lithium iron cells around here somewhere, and they are not protected,
can't remember the size for sure, they might be 14500 sized, and that is likely way to small

GreekMan

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2015, 05:36:14 PM »
yes they are...good about 1-1.5Amp draw only....
But you can make a pocket power bank to charge phones etc...

Charging with LM2596 regulators is soemthing that has been tried in the flashlight community, but they lack the proper charging algorythm..



spacecase0

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2015, 09:50:34 PM »
mostly I use the LM2596 as a charge controller for my 20W and smaller solar when charging lead acid batteries,
I know it is not what they are meant for, but it seems to work out just fine.
also to run my FT-817 or the VX7R direct from solar with no batteries
or to reduce my receive current on the FT-817 if I need to make my battery last longer when I will not be transmitting on high power

ghrit

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2015, 11:41:40 AM »
If you want to rethink the LiPo battery option, even tho' they are higher voltage than typically wanted (in the 4 pak bunches) see the article in this month's QST for a voltage controller.  Looks simple enough to build.
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spacecase0

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2015, 01:46:36 PM »
it is mainly money keeping me from going for any other batteries than what I have now,
other than what hardware I already had, the total budget was $15
for now I could come up with about $5 more if I needed to, (all the rest of my money is loaned out)
will get that copy of QST and see how they do it
thanks for telling me about it

Cindy

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2015, 02:57:52 AM »
Impressive.

Have you considered ditching the heavy VSLA battery in favor of a couple of lightweight LiFePo sticks?

-Cindy
Into Preparedness and Communications since 1987

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2015, 05:45:50 AM »
Look in a Vape shop. They have wicked 18650 batteries with crazy discharge rates.
"Preparedness is a lot more than just buying stuff"

spacecase0

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2015, 10:15:46 AM »
Impressive.

Have you considered ditching the heavy VSLA battery in favor of a couple of lightweight LiFePo sticks?

-Cindy
as soon as I get the money I plan on it

Look in a Vape shop. They have wicked 18650 batteries with crazy discharge rates.
I had no idea,
thank you,
I will go look

spacecase0

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Re: HF pack setup
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2015, 05:52:57 PM »
just tried to post an update,
lost it all, no will to retype it all at the moment.
short summery,
got a lithium iron battery (meant for starting motorcycles)
total weight is now down to 24.2 pounds
battery is Shorai LFX14L2-BS12 it is sold as a 14AH replacement and is actually a 4AH lithium iron battery (and actual capacity is not listed on there website anywhere I could find)
you must use battery cutoff switch and cell balancer for this lithium pack (it has no internal protection whatsoever)
I set it to charge at 13.9V from the solar
and use this cell balancer  http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10328__HobbyKing_8482_Battery_Medic_System_2S_6S_.html
have to disconnect the balancer and shutoff the switch to the main battery power wires so it does not die an early death when in storage